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I had a really interesting conversation with my boss today. He shared that my star is rising within the organization and that I may have the ability to take over my boss’s job when he leaves.
While he has set up the job perfectly, the even better news is that if I take the job, I would have the opportunity to go abroad the following summer, which has been my goal for awhile now.
The big push for me to get overseas is the ability to do some super savings. While abroad, housing would be covered. We would also receive some stipends as well.
This would super-charge my ability to reach FIRE. At that point, I would be free to do whatever I wanted in retirement, well within reason. 🙂
LeanFIRE vs. FatFIRE
As many of you know I am anticipating that I only need to work three more years before I reach LeanFIRE (having 25x expenses saved up). If I want to reach FatFIRE (having a good 100k to spend each year), I will probably need to work at least until I’m 50, which would include healthcare insurance the rest of my life.
Another Option
My boss also threw a curveball at me. He asked if I was interested in joining him on a new project. This new assignment would have me continue to work for him on a brand-new, exciting project. It would undoubtedly stretch and grow me. The downside would be that I would lose the ability to go overseas. And, my wife and I have been interested in that potential for some time now.
For those of you who don’t know, my wife and I grew up in the DC suburbs, just 7 houses away from each other. However, we didn’t really know each other until we were adults. Although, she distinctly remembers selling my mom girl scout cookies each year (two boxes of Thin Mints to be precise).
Our Family
One of the biggest blessings is that my wife and I currently live 10-20 minutes from the majority of our family, including our grandparents, parents and siblings.
The really nice part is that our extended family spends a lot of time with our kiddos. We are truly spoiled. I don’t know many who have this luxury.
While we love being so close to our families, the DC area is an extremely expensive place to live. One in 8 homes for sale in DC is over a million dollars. In fact, DC ranks as the 5th most expensive place to live in the US. Unfortunately, it is not getting cheaper any time soon.
Proximity to Family
If we were to move overseas, we would be leaving behind all of our family. One of our family friends, who is essentially a Grandma to our kids, told us that she’d be heartbroken not to see our kiddos weekly.
Most people don’t live so close to their families. According to a New York Times article, the typical American lives 18 miles from their mother. For reference, I’m about 5 miles away from my mother. The article goes on to say, 80% of people live within a couple hours drive from their parents.
Here are some interesting stats:
- 37% of adults have never left their hometown.
- 63% of adults have moved homes at least once in their lives.
- 57% of people have never lived outside the state that they were born.
- Only 15% of people have lived in 4 or more states.
Benefits of Proximity
A great aspect of living close to family is the reliance upon one another for financial and care support. With an aging baby-boomer population and a growing number of two-income families with childcare needs, studies confirm that this trend of familial support may continue.
I actually just had a friend leave the area because he couldn’t afford daycare anymore. He took a job, making less money, to move closer to his family, where he would receive more childcare support to help defray some of those costs. Likewise, I know some women who never went back to their jobs after having children because daycare costs were just too high.
Weighing the Pros and Cons
Running through the numbers, if I took the domestic job and worked for my boss, it appears that I would probably need to work an additional 7 years. This is based on the age that I could retire at work, as well as our desire to continue expanding our family.
While our house is sufficient for now, we would like a little bit more space in the future. So, I have to factor in a potential mortgage as well.
Thus, the tradeoff for us is: do I delay retirement by 7 years to stay close to family, or do we move overseas so that I can start my retirement earlier? I think I am leaning towards delayed retirement so that we can stay close to our family. It’s only 7 extra years, right?
Dear Mustard Seed,
As a child that grew up abroad with a federal employees parent, and now currently a young adult working at a US Embassy, I cannot recommend the opportunity to be station overseas enough.
Yes, you will miss having relatives nearby, but living overseas with my nuclear family helped tighten out bonds even more. We were/are each others support system when literally thousands of miles away from extended family.
From a finical standpoint, there are incredible benefits: housing, unities and parking; children tuition at international private schools, COLA, home leave and more.
The opportunity to live in a different country and experience other cultures is priceless and there is no easier or more comfortable way to live overseas than with a federal job.
Thanks for sharing your experience Melanie!!! My wife and I are really torn, especially with the opportunities to travel abroad and share fun trips around the world. In the same regard moving from family will be tough.
Hey Rob! Had to weigh in on this one: have you prayed? 🙂 He’ll tell you what to do. 🙂
Great advice Laurie!!! We are definitely praying through it 🙂
Oh fun, I’m in the minority! We are currently living in our fourth state, for both my husband and myself. I’d say for me the answer is clear, I chose where I live deliberately and made the sacrifices that come with it. But you have to do what you’re comfortable with. What good is early retirement if you’re stressed out alone in a foreign country and homesick? On the flip side what if by year 5 you become resentful of missing out on the overseas opportunity and still having to work every day? Only you know yourself and your family’s needs.
You hit the nail on the head. We think it would be amazing to live overseas but wonder how much we would miss family. On the flip side if we stuck around, would we wonder what if…
I have been living close to my family for most of my life and now my parents and in-laws are retired, they all love to spend time with our kids. I actually live in the same household with my in-law since we have kids and it helps a lot.
The living arrangements are not perfect, but most of the time it’s great to live near or with your family. We get a lot of help from them too. So I am grateful that we have this option. Ultimately, the decision will depends on your family’s happiness as a whole. It’s great to have that option to decide and you still have a couple more years to decide.
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Thanks for sharing Leo!!! Sounds like a great arrangement especially to have your kiddos so close to their grandparents. That sounds amazing!!
For me the question would be how long would the overseas / abroad assignment be for?
I moved in 2011, about 4 hours from where I grew up for a full time job, when I’d been a temp for 18 months, with no local fte offers. It’s close enough I will be ‘home’ for Father’s day weekend. I can drive there for holidays etc. Which also means when dad had some medical issues I could be there every other weekend.
A few people have been surprised when I mention moving back / closer. To be very real, in 10 years, my dad and step mom, and mom will be 10 years older, and it may make sense to be closer to one or both. Before I moved I was about 15 minutes from my dad and step mom and could go over for Sunday dinner. My uncles, aunts and cousins are mostly more in that area, and living this far away I have missed family gatherings like retirement parties, kids birthdays etc. It’s not a big deal to miss these, but if I lived closer I might make it to a few more.
At the same time I’ve got a friend who is working overseas for about 2 years. Knowing there is a limit on it can help with the decision. The age of your kids can be a factor, will it be a great growing up experience to spend a year or two away? Vs Grandparents feeling like they are missing out? We never lived abroad but we had 2 really cool summer vacation trips that my siblings and I still talk about.
I feel like the emotional, interpersonal (you & your wife and kids first, then parents) are more significant factors before FIRE. My mentor’s brother taught her this: if you have an either or decision, toss a coin, catch it but don’t look yet. Pay attention to the outcome you are hoping it reveals, and that is your answer.
Wow…that’s really interesting to toss the coin and don’t look at it. I’ve never heard that before and that’s fascinating what it could reveal. I am going to have to try that 🙂
I’d say go overseas and get it out of your system. Its better to do something than not do something and regret it later.
Congrats on your job accomplishments! Sounds like you like what you are doing.
If i was in the same boat, I’d stay there as long as I could. The grass is always greener.
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Thanks for sharing CJ!!! Usually the job overseas is 2-3 years. If you can get 5 years in overseas you can retire at 50. So if I go that route, I tried to knock out my five while my kiddos are young but we’ll see 🙂
Most of my relatives live within 2 hours. It’s just far enough away, yet close enough to make visits easy. 🙂
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Hahahah…If it were two hours away…I think I could do it…even if it were overseas. Unfortunately I’m not quite in that position.
Like you, I also live/work in the DMV area. My fiancee and I actually moved back in with my parents to further expedite our financial goals, because the rent in this area was definitely holding our BIG goals down.
I would definitely think about how important this dream is to you, in regards to working overseas. If this is something you have truly always dreamed of, than I wouldn’t pass this opportunity up. As much as we desire financial security in the personal finance world, the experiences are what we are actually seeking. We want the freedom to do what we want, and passing on the opportunity in front of you could lead to lasting regret.
I trust though that you and your family will make the best decision for you all moving forward!
Best of luck!
Thanks for sharing Sean!!! It would be an incredible opportunity to work overseas. There would definitely be a ton of memories to be made. We’ll see how things shake out down the road 🙂
Hey MSM, why don’t you casually strike up the conversation with your family, like hey Dad where should we retire in Arizona or Florida? I live close to my family and it is a blessing financially, emotionally, etc., and I live in Arizona. It is pretty common here after a family member moves, the rest of the family from the greater USA starts trickling in. My brother-in-laws family has completely transplanted itself. The benefits of cheaper living costs not only help you, but mom and pops, too, and there are other bonuses: better weather, cheaper utilities and insurance and taxes.
Great suggestion Carolina!!! I’ll have to broach it with both sides to see what they think 🙂
As someone who’s been away from her family for 8 years, I would choose family. BUT, we’ve also talked a lot about moving overseas, and that adventure would be cool. But how long would it be? Because I don’t think anything can replicate the experience of having a tight, loving support network for your family. Studies about the happiest people in the world show they have just that, and it’s that close support system that makes all the difference. But if your overseas gig would only be for a few years, and then you could come back, then maybe it would be worth it.
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Ideally it would be for five years so I can knock it all out at once, since I’d be able to retire early. However most overseas opportunities are two to three years at a time. Leaving my support system would definitely be tough and not one that I’m really looking forward to 🙁
Family! Family family family. To me that is the only thing truly important. Unless they’re awful – then move FAR away. We have very little family still living and we cherish what time we get to spend with them. 1 son lives with us (collage age), 1 son lives 5 miles away, and 1 son lives out of state. Guess which one breaks my heart? It’s terribly difficult to manage far away relationships. You have such a precious gift, don’t throw it away to meet some silly timetable that’s only in your head.
Family, family, family. I’ve been alone for a long time. ButI learned some interesting facts. Thank you for the information. I’ll look in on you. )))
Thanks for sharing Adrian!!! I love hearing your perspective and if the roles were reversed and my kiddos were thinking about leaving I know where I’d stand as well 🙂
Personally, I’d take the foreign assignment any day! A different land, different way of living, experiencing and assimilating into a new culture – all worth it, especially if kids are young.
We currently live in a city/state in the US, where our closest family on either side is 180 miles away. Our kid gets to see grandparents maybe once a month. Cousins maybe every quarter, if lucky. We paid for childcare before elementary school started and that was almost another mortgage! Any evening out with just us spouses means a sitter for our child. I’d give a lot to have family closer. But since they are not, I’d take up the foreign assignment.
Thanks for sharing NWA-non. Not having to pay for a sitter and daycare is an incredible blessing for us. Knowing that it would be an additional cost if we move overseas definitely weighs into the decision.
This is a good dilemma to have. I think factoring the age of the kids is important as well. How old will they be if you wait 7 years, and can choose to live abroad or a while if you like? Would they benefit from that more in their teen years vs younger years? Also, does living by family give you assistance with raising young kids? At this point in my life, I thank God every time my Mom pinch hits for us- something she couldn’t do 2 years ago as we lived out of state, but are so thankful for now that she lives 20 minutes away. My kids also really benefit from such a loving grandmother. Given all of the above, my vote would be keep the head down another 7 years, and really be able to do what you would like (I would assume with FatFIRE- you could potentially live abroad)- with the comfort of having lifetime healthcare (a bonus that should pay itself in spades the older you get).
Thanks for sharing Josh!!! Having family so close is wonderful and truly a blessing. If family wasn’t close it’d be a no-brainer but having them close definitely makes it that much harder…
We live literally next door to my in-laws and it’s priceless. There are so many ways we help out each other and the kids especially like it. The overseas question is a tough one. If it’s for a brief time it should definitely be considered.
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Oh man…being able to send the kiddos next door when you want to tear your hair out would be wonderful. I definitely wouldn’t mind living next door to my family 🙂
Family would be my decision hands down. Connections with my family are what bring the most satisfaction in life and I wouldn’t give that up for anything. If you are only talking about working overseas short term (less than 2 years) then it could be a closer call.
Thanks for stopping by!!! I would need to get in a total of 5 years but could break it up over time between two job opportunities of 2 and 3 years. I have a feeling if we went out on an opportunity that it’d be hard for us to want to go back out a 2nd time.
To quote the Windex loving Dad in My Big Fat Greek Wedding (oh by the way as I speak, your father is currently Windexing the windows in our beach rental here in Sunset Beach), “WHY YOU WANT TO LEAVE ME?????”
Hahahaha 🙂
Man MSM, I don’t know the answer to this one for you. I’ve read through everyone’s comments and I can understand both sides of the argument. If your family has a travel bug and would maximize the most of the opportunity in Europe by traveling, exploring, and bonding together, it would be awesome and an unforgettable experience. Especially if it gets you closer to FIRE. But, if the plan is to not travel, work, and stick to the provided living, the potential to be homesick and miserable is real. I’ve never lived abroad, so I can’t relate. But that’s my take on the different comments that have been around.
I’m also biased because I live close to family and I always have (outside of college). We don’t have kids yet, but my sister/brother in law have two that I”m about to babysit for the next three hours. They both had something come up at the last minute and they were able to call me, ask if I can watch them for a few hours, so they could take care of business. And of course I want to spend time with my niece and nephew! That first hand is the flexibility that being around family offers and I’m sure you already know it.
Regardless, I think both options are great. You’re family will also come visit you in Europe and you can share your experiences with them out there. You may not see them every week, but they will understand and be just as excited for you when you come home. I don’t think my answer helps you out at all, but that’s because there may not be a right or wrong answer in this equation. You have to do what is best for you, your family, and the goals that your family wants to achieve in the short and long term future.
Best of luck deciding!
Bert
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Thanks Bert!!! I am definitely fortunate to even be in these positions. My plan is next time I’m out for travel to look around and imagine being there. We’ll see how it shakes out 🙂
Millennials are less willing to move long distances to take a job than previous generations. Even though they are less likely to be tied down with a spouse or a house or with children they still seem unwilling to move long distances for a better job. Some experts fear this is going to damage America economically because it will hurt productivity. It is something of a mystery why the generation with the least encumbrances is the most fearful to pull up stakes and improve their economic status? In your case you do have a family so you don’t fit the criteria but do you think your hesitation is partly generational?
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I honestly have no idea Steveark. I have actually had a ton of friends move overseas and away from their parents over the years. So I personally haven’t seen millennials less willing to move but that may have to do with the area of the country that I live (DC).
I’m born and raised in SF and still live here. Most of my family is here in the SF Bay Area and so does my wife. In fact, we live only a couple of miles from her parents house where they take care of our 2 year old son throughout the week so no need to worry about daycare expenses.
We are currently looking for a home here in the Bay but it is really tough to find one with the enormous prices around here. It would be really hard for us to move out of the area with most of our family over here along with the free daycare. We did casual look into moving to lower cost housing areas like Sacramento, Reno and Portland, OR but my wife likes the comfort of having a strong family support system. I would be open to moving out of the Bay Area but do understand and know what’s like to have loving family around us.
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Thanks for sharing Kris!!! I thought the DC real estate market was hot but it’s nowhere close to what it’s like in SF. I don’t know what I’d do if I were there.
MSM,
I graduated from college last year and moved from south Florida to Seattle for my job…my parents like to joke that I basically moved away as far as I possibly could.
We moved from Argentina to the US when I was little and that made us super close as a family. It’s tough being so far away for a prolonged and indefinite time frame.
I’m making a new life out here for now (girlfriend is moving to Seattle with me soon), but I’d love to be back near my family as soon as I can.
Any chance of finding a way to do both? Go abroad for some time and then join the project? Never hurts to ask 🙂
The good thing about choosing between two good options is that you can’t really go wrong
Good luck choosing, wish you the best!
Thanks for sharing Gonzalo!!! As time goes on, I’m leaning more and more towards sticking close to family, which ultimately is what matters most in life. 🙂
Hey Rob,
I understand that you are torn. I would say as one of the commenters (Melanie) above that an experience abroad might tighten the bonds between you. I think it is a unique opportunity life is giving you. It will sure put you out of your comfort zone living further away from your relatives but hey if it is “only” 2-3 years it is pretty okay, and with your increased salary and benefits you will be able to come and visit as well. I have been location independent myself and have now chosen to live closer to my relatives (3,5 hours drive to my parents and 20 minutes to my sister) I must say it feels great to know you can be around them the same day but I have no regrets of living abroad whatsoever. I have no kids so it is true that this can play a big role in the decision making but still see it as an opportunity for them too and if you are a fellow believer ask God for advice 🙂
Cheers and keep us posted!
Thanks for the great advice Jonathan!!! I’m still praying through the decision hoping for some clarity. Some days I lean towards going abroad while others I lean towards staying here. Hopefully He’ll make it evident sooner rather than later 🙂
And one more thing, I am still in favor of an experience abroad, but since you do well at work and you enjoy what you do staying in the DC area seems a good option as well : 7 more years of doing what you enjoy AND close to family is not bad either ;).
PS : I was expat in 2016 and that gave me a taste of FI, so it can open new horizons, experiences and new thinking. In you case I would not go abroad for the FI part only but for the experience of living abroad.
Thanks for sharing Jonathan!!! I always love hearing people’s perspectives that lived overseas. I hardly hear of anyone that has been disappointed which makes the decision that much harder 🙂