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I have a dilemma. As most of you know, last year I accepted a new position within the government. Over the past year, I have learned a ton. My boss is amazing. I love all the people that I work with. I am growing a lot in the position each day.
On top of that, my position allows me the ability to potentially go overseas. In turn, this would allow me the ability to retire at the age of 50, with a really nice pension.
My wife and I have been mentally preparing ourselves to go overseas with both excitement and anxiety.
Admittedly, there are times when I am super geeked to go overseas. There are also days when I can’t imagine taking my kiddos away from their grandparents, especially since they usually get to see both sides at least once a week.
Reaching FIRE
Additionally, my Reaching FIRE course has just started to gain traction. More and more people are signing up by the day. I want to thank all those who have already signed up. For those who are mulling over the decision, just do it!
As the course takes off and other churches show interest in my teaching services, there is a part of me that wonders if going overseas is the right decision.
An Enticing Door Open
When I received a phone call last Wednesday, out of the blue, asking if I would be interested in applying for my dream job as a financial counselor, within the government, I was floored.
The person who informed of this job opening had hinted in the past that she may be nearing retirement last year, but when she did not retire, I just figured that job would not be available for me for a while.
In speaking with her, she had nothing but positive things to say about the job, the management team in place, and the clients who she serves.
On top of that, she shared all the opportunities to modernize the movement of financial information and how I could actually tailor my Reaching FIRE course to the government.
The whole time I was talking to her, I had a smile on my face as I thought, “How cool would this be. Heck, I’m doing all this stuff for free right now, and they’re willing to pay me to do this. Where do I sign up?”
Some Hesitancy
But then I started to think about it more deeply. There are a couple of small caveats that make me hesitate.
Decrease In Pay
The position would be a downgrade in my pay by about $12,000 a year. While money is not my #1 priority, I think we would feel the lack, especially now that we have two kiddos.
No Head Room
On top of that, there would never be any head room to move up. Once I accept the position, I would be virtually stuck in that position level for the undetermined future.
A Burnt Bridge
In addition, if I leave my current position, I would not have the ability to get back into my current office. My manager took a risk bringing me on. While I’ve done well, I’m sure he would hesitate bringing me back knowing that I had already burned him once by leaving.
No Growth
Finally, I also think about the challenges and growth that I’ve experienced in my current position. I have been stretched and groomed into an even more effective leader. However, I know that I still have room for growth. I do wonder if being in a position where I am completely comfortable will cause me to remain stagnant.
Sure, I would thoroughly enjoy the work. I’d probably jump out of bed each day. But, it is possible that the work might become boring, or even worse, that I’ll regret passing the opportunity to go overseas, which would lead to greater leadership positions in the future.
oooh, that’s such a difficult one, really hard to decide.
I guess the crux of the issue is to work out if it would be a dream job in reality? All sort of things can be fun when you do them, and bring enjoyment. But when you turn them into a job? Add deadlines, status reports and higher expectations?
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Thanks for sharing Ms. ZiYou!!! I have a feeling that if I got this job I would do cartwheels for the first week. After that who knows but it sounds great on paper 🙂 I’ll keep you informed on the journey!!!
It’s acceptable when your dreams change. You started to seek out new complementary dreams both before and after this opportunity didn’t come through. It seems as though those opportunities have taken you on a path to do many of the things the old dream job promised plus more. The growth aspect that you mentioned seems like a real issue for you (good and rightly so). I think a misnomer of the FIRE community has been that we all want to stop working and laze about. I think many really want to be free to do and experience what we really want. That might mean working in a job that challenges us and presents new experiences. If nothing else, living in a foreign country will do that.
I suppose my only pro question/statement centers around your course. How will you be able to manage that from abroad? If that’s a true passion and presents a significant barrier then your decision may be more complicated.
Thank you for the great insight Heather!!! I do wonder about the course all the time. Especially since people have been signing up and appear to be benefiting 🙂 Definitely something to weigh!!!
Oh I completely understand the feeling. I had an amazing job with WONDERFUL people that completely allow me to grow and this job supported me during really hard times. However, I knew it wasn’t what I wanted in he long run… I wanted different areas of growth in my career and I didn’t like the feeling of being stuck. So I left. I still think about it because I know I disappointed people that got me there and supported me for years. About two years later they called me and offered me the job again, I said no. Simply because it did not align with what I wanted at the moment. It was really really hard! I still keep relationship with those people and I will forever be grateful. However I wouldn’t change my decision. I am happy where I am and be learned so much and grown in the way I was expecting.
Thanks for sharing Monica!!! It’s great to hear that risk that you took and how you don’t regret it. I love hearing encouraging stories like that 🙂
I’m feeling like due to the ‘caveats’ it is a dream position, but not your dream _job_. For myself a job with no growth is not my dream job, and the apathy can set in. Any of the FI bloggers I read are here because they had too many ideas to keep to themself, and that natural growth was the blog.
Would your boss ever consider ‘lending’ you to that role for a few hours a month, or to facilitate / teach the course sometimes? If he said no, but you could if you used your own vacation time to do it, would you?
I really enjoy teaching yoga, and they have been looking for someone to 1 off cover a 7 am weekday class, at the studio 20 min north of me, with a 40 min commute from home to work, so now an hour from the studio. I was thinking about it, because I’d have to be there between 630 & 645 & still get to my real job late, and wondering if they would give me a small bump in pay if they really couldn’t find someone else. Only to remember it’s a donation class, which means the teacher is also donating his/ her time. In the past I have taken a 1/2 day vacation to cover a morning class, so I know where my limits are. For me it isn’t worth it to add the stress to my normal work day or risk pushing my bosses patience.
The other consideration is how would this fit with your FI plan? I know I am not aiming to be in a C suite at 65. I am targeting a promotion for growth as I still have years of work. The Green Swan took a sideways step off one ladder and into a different role. I think if you are close to FI, and more promotions isn’t your goal anyway, then having ‘no head room’ as you put it is fine. You’ll promote yourself out the door when ready.
In answer to the post title: It is acceptable to turn down your dream position, when it’s clear it isn’t your dream job.
I love your thought process and I really appreciate it!!! The position after meeting with them appears to have growth, just not necessarily with pay. In hindsight, since I am in a comfortable position and close to FIRE as it is, working an extra year or two in a job that I love may be worth it. But I’m still weighing all my options 🙂
Congrats on the great opportunity! I think it’s great to do what you love and get paid for it.
However, based on the caveats that you described, I think you might want to stay at your current job. Lack of head room and a 12k pay cut really threw me off. >.<
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Thanks Ms. FAF!!! The pay cut and lack of head room is definitely discouraging. With that said, we are dialoguing so they might be able to make it more enticing. We’ll see 🙂
Rob, I think it’s important to balance both short and long term considerations when defining a dream job. It looks like this is mostly short term. Why settle. You are good, find both and then it will really be a dream job. Tom
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Thanks Tom for the words of encouragement! It definitely needs to be a win win for both sides 🙂
Eek, tough decision indeed.
Honestly if it was me I wouldn’t take it. Sounds like the downsides would really hinder you even if it’s awesome at the start. Personally I think I’d prefer to keep the good thing and focus on maximizing the awesomeness outside of your job also.
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Thanks Dave!!! I definitely need to figure that out as well. If I had to shut down the blog especially with how well the course is going…that could be tough.
To me, it sounds like this isn’t quite your dream job, due to the major caveats you mentioned. It does have a lot of positives, but from what I know of you through this blog, I bet the lack of growth potential would drive you crazy in time. But you never know for sure until you jump! Either option has plenty of great stuff to fuel your motivation. Can’t wait to keep reading to find out what you all decide!
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Thanks Mrs. COD!!! It’s definitely quite the decision and one that I need to pray through. Hoping for more clarity here in the future 🙂
I haven’t ever had to turn down my “dream job” yet, but I have turned down promotions twice. The reason was the added responsibility/stress did not fit into my life plan at the time. It was difficult, because I was raised with a big “duty concept” where if the country/organization needed you, you “step up.”
The most recent one was as I was getting closer to FI – I just couldn’t see taking on the added workload & stress, when I was already looking at exiting sometime in the near future.
Thanks for sharing Mr. 39 months!!! I have a feeling that this job would give me a great work life balance…I just wonder if I still have energy to burn where I wouldn’t mind working a bit more to set up the future. All things to think about 🙂
I think a lot of people have expressed similar sentiments. The “dream job” seems like it is a dream job because of what you are currently doing (e.g. the blog, the course, etc). However, does it comport with the longer-term dream of living abroad, retiring with the pension, doing the stuff you can do. Because eventually that job will go away. Eventually you will probably quit formal work for the government. In the interim you are becoming a financial counselor, just not with the blog. Maybe you satisfy this counselor aspect through the course and/or creating materials for the government, they use their materials, and license it from you. It is great problem to have, but does it fall into the vision of what you want long-term. If not, it might not be the “dream job” you really want.
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Those are all really great points Jason!!! It’s definitely something that I thought about if this is my full time job is it something that I would get burnt out of who energized through…all thoughts to think about.
Tough options! I haven’t had a chance to turn down my “dream job” yet, but I can imagine it’s difficult deciding how to proceed with the options you are facing currently. I wish you all the best as you make your decision.
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Thanks Enoch!!! I thought it would be an easier decision but clearly it’s not nearly as easy as I thought 🙂
On two separate occasions I had competing job offers. In both instances, I took the lower paying offer because I thought I would enjoy the work more. On a third occasion, I accepted a job without asking about the salary. Granted I accepted a job offer within the same company so it was likely that would at least keep the same salary (it ended up being a 5% raise) but the point is that I was more motivated by the new job rather than the new salary.
I don’t believe in the concept of a “dream job.” You can take a task you love to do and are currently doing for free (or even paying money out of your own pocket) but once you make it a job with the accompanying salary issues, advancement prospects, office politics, competing priorities, etc. it quickly become just a “job.” That’s not to say there are not jobs that you can enjoy but the concept of a “dream job” is overly idealistic and not possible in the real world. It’s called “work” for a reason.
Hahaha…you are absolutely right. It’s called work for a reason. I was just hoping the work could be something I really enjoy 90% of the time 🙂 I don’t know how realistic that is…I’m guessing it’s not but it’s fun thinking about at times 🙂
That’s a hard one. Giving up the opportunity to live overseas would be huge. On the one hand, you would be taking the chance to do what you love, albeit at lower pay, and on the other giving away the opportunity of a lifetime.
It would seem that you have 2 opportunities of a lifetime presented to you that are mutually exclusive: the expat job and the financial counselor job.
If the financial couselor job is really your dream job, then taking a $12000 pay cut is not that bad and you can always push your FIRE date later. Its all just a matter of priorities.
Which is most important?
FIRE or the job…
Good luck.
Hahaha…that is exactly what I’m trying to figure out Justin 🙂 I feel like I’m in the Robert Frost poem of The Road Not Taken.
Ohhh, this is a tough decision Rob. You have to sit down and figure the short and long term ramifications. Some of the questions you may have to ask is if your willing to stay at your dream job financial counselor with the pay decrease for the foreseeable future? And if you indeed turn it down and go overseas, is it possible to do the FIRE course overseas?
Keep us updated on your decision and best of luck on whatever you decide on!
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I’ll definitely keep you informed! I think it will be much harder to teach the Reaching FIRE course overseas which somewhat limits the momentum which I would be disappointed about. But I guess we’ll see what happens 🙂
Oh yeah, these are really big reasons! I consider a dream job to be only a dream if it doesn’t hurt the people I love and care about in any way. A -$12k isn’t enough but when your family is growing, it will help to pad the bottom line. Great post!
Thanks Lily!!! It will definitely be interesting to see what happens down the line. Still having a convo at this point but I’m definitely torn.